culture
We created a
that aligned an
entire region
This week we get Up-Close with David Parry-Jones, Senior Vice President and General Manager International at Twilio. In this interview, David sheds light on both his obstacles and achievements while expanding a US based tech company into international markets, as well as how to move away from using revenue as the sole measure of success.
Tell us about your journey to becoming GM International at Twilio? What motivated you to take on this role?
I was hired to run EMEA in late 2018 which I did successfully for two - three years. EMEA is the largest region outside of the US and there were a lot of lessons learnt from that specific role before I stepped into an international role. Whilst the exponential growth in the US slowed down, international became a high growth revenue engine. I tried to lead by putting myself in the shoes of each market and ran the regions by understanding their specific challenges.
Ultimately, this was shifting from an operationally focused role to a very strategic one. Historically, I was always more operationally focused, so this role opened new growth opportunities for me, and I learnt a lot from this. I was equally focused on developing strategy along with execution.
“I tried to lead by putting myself in the shoes of each market and ran the regions by understanding their specific challenges”
What were the biggest surprises – positive and otherwise – that you had to adjust to, that surfaced once you had joined the business?
I knew there were going to be challenges but I probably underestimated how challenging it would be for the two existing regional leaders who began reporting into me. These leaders were effectively moved down the ‘operational hierarchy.’ Although they didn’t necessarily see me as a problem, I worked hard to focus on their career aspirations. It was my responsibility to provide them with clarity regarding what I was coming in to achieve and what they would continue to do, while reassuring them that although the reporting lines changed, the visibility remained.
How did you develop the strategy that has led to such significant growth for the company outside of the US?
When I first joined, I was responsible for EMEA, but Twilio is very much a global business, doing business in almost every country. Progress is often defined by entering countries from an entity and opening new offices perspective. We thoughtfully expanded our footprint in EMEA - for companies like Twilio, entering a smaller country can be more challenging compared to entering a large country like the US due to language, culture and telco regulations.
In the US, Twilio organised around industry verticals such as finance and retail, then by segment (e.g. number of employees). Only then did they optimise for geography. The US region sought teams which were created in this order, for example, a finance vertical team that sell into enterprise clients in the West coast. For the international region, this strategy is challenging. Geography, culture and language were prioritised over industry and segment. Whilst I had salespeople in the UK dedicated to looking after enterprise accounts in the financial industry, I did not implement specific international teams to specific segments or industries.
I remember a couple of years ago, my CRO suggested that I have a finance vertical team in EMEA. I challenged this because I believe that if you have a UK-based sales leader who’s managing a German team based in Berlin and a French team based in Paris, it reduces the chance of success in those specific regions. I’d rather have the country leaders have their leadership role in their specific markets. This is more of a challenge across mid-sized companies, because larger companies tend to have more people in each country and can then organise into specific industries if needed.
What are the challenges you have faced in scaling the company internationally, and how have you overcome some of them?
Twilio actively emphasized its commitment to addressing racism and promoting diversity and inclusion within the company. In Europe, where a diverse range of DE&I challenges exists, racism is certainly one of them, but it is not the sole issue at hand. It required considerable effort to ensure that we approached these matters with sensitivity, considering both the broader international market and our employee base. We needed to showcase our comprehension of the specific complexities present in international regions, distinguishing them from the situation in the United States. This was a good example of a single global strategy needing modifying for wider international consumption.
Finally, a challenge among all tech companies, specifically US-based tech companies which can hinder international growth is the topic of data privacy. I became an advocate for the implementation of the infrastructure required to become compliant in each region over time. This is still a challenge as international territories are taking a very hard stance on data privacy and anti-US policies. This is even more challenging if your focus is in the public or healthcare sectors.
I think the challenges for scaling a West Coast, US-based company remains the same across all multi-national global businesses. The reality is that the US is one market with one currency and a single language. Because of this, it is easier to scale very quickly across that market. In international territories, the focus is on the larger geographies which is determined by looking at the GDP and the population.
A challenge that I believe we tackled really well as a team was building a sense of identity, belonging and culture in the EMEA business for everybody who was situated here. My role was to lead the sales team but from a GM perspective, I didn’t have a hard line for all the other functions, so I had to create a culture and a vision that aligned the entire region. Obviously, I didn’t do this on my own, but I brought in the right people at the right time and together we did a good job of creating that sense of belonging in a very diverse organisation.
How do you approach team management and building a strong company culture, especially across different regions and cultures? What sets you apart as a leader?
The people I’ve worked with and who have worked for me would hopefully validate that I really build that identity, culture, equity, and diversity which allows people to feel that they have a voice and have a chance to constantly develop. At the same time, I’m not a pushover. I know high performers are constantly looking for a chance to progress, and low performers want to see leaders that address important matters and take the business forward. It’s finding that balance of caring but also driving a high-performance culture.
I started there; I always start with people. I think it’s essential for people to have fun, because if they’re having fun and are enjoying what they’re doing, they’re more likely to perform well and stay longer. Then all the measurements of performance, productivity and metrics will become a product of that.
I used to joke with my boss that we both share the same ten priorities, but the order is different, he has hard metrics higher in his priorities and I have people and culture higher on mine.
From a regional perspective, if I want to build a business in a country, I aim to hire a great country leader and allow them to run the business. I intuitively trust people until they give me a reason not to. Again, I think that underpins my approach to focusing on people and culture to build a sustainable business. I try to empower them to do their job and encourage full autonomy, but I’ll also give them the support, coaching development and resources that they need.
“If you take credit for when everything’s going right, you must take responsibility for when things are going wrong.”
How do you measure success for the company, and what metrics do you use to track progress?
I believe it’s important for there to be a consistency in how a wider team is operating. Having an operating framework can measure success of the business; it defines the measures and KPIs pre-revenue. I think it’s hard to get away from revenue being the ultimate measure of success, however, the organisation needs to have a goal – a north star if you like - to direct the wider team towards the end goal. Of course, revenue is always a trailing metric when you’re trying to scale a business, but also making sure you’ve got the right measures which focuses the team to the aligned vision and allows them to execute in their own style, culture and language, is critical.
One measure that I was challenged on in the early days was diversity in the workforce, and more specifically, the number of women at the company and the percentage of women in senior positions. I’ve been brought up and am surrounded by working women - my sister is the CEO of Great British Nuclear, my wife is doing a similar job to me, and I’d personally never seen women dealing with these sorts of barriers. So, when I was given a metric for the number of women I had in my team, I didn’t get it; then I realised, if you want to drive change around the status quo, you need to put a hard metric on it and drive the change that you are able to. This metric can then be relaxed once you’ve got the momentum shift but if you don’t have this in the beginning, nothing will change, and people will continue doing what they’re doing. Therefore, around a decade ago I bought into this metric-based approach and still support it today. I became more enlightened to not everybody having my upbringing and not all women having the experience my wife, mother or sister have had.
Could you tell us about a time when you had to make a tough decision that had a significant impact on the company? How did you handle it?
Through conversations with other companies, I’ve found that there is very rarely a wider organisational strategy for when the market drastically changes to a downward direction. Personally, a tough decision that stands out to me was shutting down the French entity. The leader in France had been on the Twilio journey with me since the early days and he had done a great job, but it was a decision I needed to make given where we were on the growth curve. In those difficult moments, I believe is important is to be someone who owns those hard decisions and has those tough conversations. I believe that if you’re going to take credit for when everything’s going right, you have to take responsibility for when it is not, and as a leader I think it’s important to be empathetic whilst also understanding what needs to be done to meet organisational goals.
“In those difficult moments, I believe is important is to be someone who owns those hard decisions and has those tough conversations.”
What’s one of the biggest mistakes you've made as a leader, and what did you learn from it?
When I joined Microsoft in 2005, I was running the enterprise media and entertainment business, and within a year my boss resigned. As a result, I was promoted to run the entire enterprise business and I found myself responsible for a greater than one-thousand-person company worth one billion dollars. There was huge visibility and exposure during a very tough market for Microsoft. Bluntly, I failed and was only in the role for a year and a half.
Despite this failure, I chose to stay at Microsoft and continue my career there for a further four years. Ultimately, the lesson I learned was to not let my ambition get ahead of my capabilities. I was in a role where I was basically incompetent and it wasn’t because I was stupid - it was for many reasons, namely because I hadn’t had enough time in the organisation. I didn’t get the support or time from leaders above me and the team below me had been through too much change over the previous three to four years.
I’ve given advice to make sure that people are competent enough to begin with, and that they will have the support structure around them. If the team below you isn’t ready to succeed, there should be a good understanding of that before you go in so that you’re given time to make those changes.
I learnt a lot from this experience, but I didn’t truly recognise the learnings until two years after because it was a painful experience and at the time, I blamed other people and didn’t see the bigger picture. It was like holding onto a high voltage electricity cable because it hurt like hell, but I couldn’t turn it off. I tried to make a success out of it but in the end, someone else had to turn the power off.
What are you most proud of from your Twilio journey to date?
I’m very proud of a lot of things that we have achieved at Twilio. For me though, it comes back to people - there are several people who have gone through the Twilio journey and then went on to do great things. One example out of many is Paul Adams. I knew him for several years as our paths crossed in various organisations such. Paul joined Twilio as the UK MD when the team was less than ten people, with a remit to build something bigger. He progressed through the organisation and succeeded me as VP EMEA. He’s now leading Watershed for EMEA and I’m sure he’ll be immensely successful and build on the experiences we had at Twilio.
As referenced earlier, my sister is the newly appointed Chief Executive of Great British Nuclear and has previously been GM of a nuclear power station. People don’t tend to connect us because we’re in very different walks of life; although, our surname is pretty unusual so the odd person does join the dots! Another thing you might be surprised to hear is that I’m a qualified schoolteacher, which is a fact I like to bring up a lot to hear people’s disbelief! I did a physics degree and then did my teaching qualification but didn’t take it up as a career.
Outside of Twilio, what one thing might people be surprised to know about you?
“Another thing you might be surprised to hear is that I’m a qualified schoolteacher, which is a fact I like to bring up a lot to hear people’s disbelief!”
If you could choose a superpower, what would it be and why?
Time travel because it gives you hindsight in advance. I’d love to go forwards and then have the ability to come back to the present to see how things have panned out.
A more serious one would be listening. Somebody once said to that extroverts know what they’re thinking only when they hear themselves say it. As an extrovert, I can get very carried away and become over-enthusiastic, but I’ve learnt over the years to shut my mouth and listen a bit more. I think listening is a superpower because you can be surprised by what you learn by listening.
How do you keep up to date in your sector? Any suggestions of great books / podcasts / content that you listen to keep up to date?? Or any books or content that have influenced your career or leadership style that you would recommend?
The first thing you should know about me is that I learn through conversation. I love having a back-and-forth around strategy. I wish I’d known that as a school kid because revising was not my thing! I do read a lot, but mainly I love to meet a lot of people. I network a lot and have a lot of friends (probably too many).
Reading-wise, I read the Times for everyday information, and I rely on Seeking Alpha for company-related news. Additionally, I read an email blog called Clouded Judgement which gives a SaaS business perspective. I’m not a great business book reader. However, earlier in my career, I read specific literature that helped me understand the dynamics of managing people and business. One was Monkey Management and the other was Who Moved My Cheese?
Lastly, there’s a guy called David Hieatt who runs a jeans company called Hiut - he is a marketer by background. The stuff that he posts is very intellectually engaging, relating to people and psychology. He runs various events across the UK, and I’ve had him speak at various kinds of conferences about his journey. He’s one of those people who has built a business through the reach the internet has given him. His stuff is really thought provoking.
