If you don't think
strategically,
you're going to
trip yourself up.
In our latest Up-Close interview, we speak with Geraldine MacCarthy, Chief Revenue Officer at Personio and former Head of Business, EMEA at Dropbox.
Can you please talk us through the key milestones of your career and how they led to your current role as Chief Revenue Officer?
Firstly, I’ve not taken the well-beaten track to get to CRO. To give you a sense of my background, I was in consulting for five years after leaving university, before I joined Google in 2006, which was the first big milestone for me. My background in consulting was incredibly helpful in equipping me with skills for working in an early-stage growth organisation, and joining Google during a period of such intense maturation was an enormous step as it propelled my journey into the tech industry.
Before embarking on a career in tech, I'd had ambitions of doing an MBA to learn about business and develop my network. However, I realised very quickly that I was having many of the same experiences at Google as I would have done on an MBA - so it was a very unique and special place. At Google, I also had great experiences in that I got to work in different locations. First Ireland, then setting up their new location in Poland and then moving to Google’s HQ in the US for two years, where I realised that tech was where I was meant to be. I had a goal to be a C-level executive, but at this point I knew that I didn't have enough experience in working with product and engineering, and I probably didn't have enough strategic experience from large sales or large commercial roles. So, I decided to take on the role in the US to learn how to work strategically and with deep product and engineering collaboration.
After Google, I joined Dropbox for pre-IPO company experience and to help the business grow into Europe. People now think of Dropbox as a B2B business despite the fact that we only launched the B2B business from scratch just over ten years ago, with only a handful of customers already in place. Launching it from zero at the early stage was amazing. Additionally, going through the pre-IPO to post-IPO journey at Dropbox was a great learning experience for me. Over the years, I developed a strong Dropbox network of amazing peers and colleagues, who I still see as my folks to turn to when I need advice. They’re still the ones that I ring up and say, "hey, have you seen this problem before?”, “How have you handled it?", which I love. I also navigated coming back from two maternity leaves during my tenure at Dropbox, who as an employer were fantastic and immensely supportive. Having my two children was by far one of the most instrumental moments in my career in terms of how I navigated that personal change.
What's the advice you give others who want to be a CRO and do you have any thoughts on how one might need to position themselves?
The CRO job is an interesting one. You're accountable for consistent delivery all year round in a very high execution and fast-paced role. That said, if you don't think strategically, you're going to trip yourself up, so getting the balance right is important in the CRO role. From what I’m seeing in the market, there are different archetypes of CROs out there, one of which is highly strategically commercial, likely with a background in strategy consulting. Then, you have the more sales-led CRO that has worked various sales leadership roles. Regardless, you need to balance skills between the two personas. Usually you'll have one area that you spike in, but you need to figure out how you're going to build the other sides. For me, my background is more on the strategic side, while I've built my sales muscle learning on the job. If you had told me at the age of 22 that I'd be running revenue teams, I probably wouldn't have believed you. I absolutely adore my job, but I would have thought back then that I’d be in a much more operational or financial role.
The last four years have been the most intense and incredible on the commercial side. Right from entering COVID and not really knowing what to expect, all the way to coming out the other side with a lot of intensity around digitalisation of businesses. The theme has been around correcting at the right time, and getting the balance right when you make adjustments. When you're in larger businesses, you have a lot of data that you can rely on to help reflect on to understand dynamics. “Okay, is this a signal?”, “Is it a blip?” or “Is it a signal that shows something's happening on our side?”. In an earlier stage business, you don't have this insight so instead rely on internal data and conversations, but also talking to your network and learning from peers. This continual change has been an ongoing challenge over the last couple of years, but it’s also a fantastic opportunity for growth and learning.
What are some of the most significant challenges that you have faced in your role at Personio and how did you go about dealing with them?
What about your leadership style? How has that evolved into the leader you are today?
I was laughing when I first read this question, thinking about the earliest version of myself. I've always been a really ambitious and driven person and I think I used to be a very transactional leader as I always thought I was doing right by my team because I was driving great results. As I've grown, I've learned that I need to take the team with me and that I need to support them. Here, I learned to rely on and trust my team. I’ve had the privilege of working with many amazing individuals in my career who have gone on to do amazing things themselves. With this more collaborative approach I've become more balanced and understanding which is the tool that you need in a situation to get the results and to work alongside the team.
“Over the years, I developed a strong Dropbox network of amazing peers and colleagues, who I still see as my folks to turn to when I need advice. They’re still the ones that I ring up and say, "hey, have you seen this problem before?”, “How have you handled it?", which I love.”
Obviously, everyone is still talking advancements in technology, with AI and machine learning at the forefront of that. How has it helped you or distracted you and what is the effect it has had on your approach to the role that you play at Personio?
The debate around AI reminds me a little bit of the birth of the internet. Everybody quickly got very excited, but you risk spending a lot of time investing into areas which might not take off. What I am committed to do with the team is to be very intentional about where we invest. Our approach over the last six months has been to say, "Okay, what's currently in our tech stack, and where can we use AI within the current tech stack to improve?" One tool that we've been using recently is Gong. It is a phenomenal tool for us to use with fantastic AI insights. Useful tools include their forecasting solution which takes all relevant data to give you a forecast estimate of where they think you're going to be at. The concern for me is that if you add too much, you actually end up distracting the reps because there's too much fragmentation in what you're doing, so we're trying to get that balance right between the two. The important thing is to not get too carried away with all that is happening. There's so much out there and you could spend weeks analysing it without moving your business forward, so I think you need to be very clear about where you want to add value and what are the things you're trying to solve for.
“I think you need to be very clear about where you want to add value and what are the things you're trying to solve for”
Obviously Personio is across multiple regions so how do you approach bringing the teams together, making it cohesive to unify company culture, while also thinking about local differences?
Fundamentally, if you define a unified goal, then it doesn't matter where your team is based. It’s also important not to assume that all teams are the same, and to celebrate that diversity within teams. I always say that 80% of the work you're doing is the same, and 20% is differentiated into the market, so recognising and celebrating the uniqueness that we have within the teams is vital. It’s important to interweave teams too. For example, last year we had a Spanish rep who was doing a deal with a customer based in the Netherlands, so the Spanish rep himself went out and said, “I'm going to bring in someone from the Dutch team to close this deal with me". I loved that, and I really celebrated this collaboration.
How does data inform your decisions at Personio and what roles do analytics play in shaping your revenue growth strategies?
When I think about revenue growth, it's always more forward looking. You can just never get complacent about revenue growth which is a core mindset for success. Celebrate the wins, but also look forward to what needs to be done. I think specifically on using data, sometimes the tendency can be to look at lagging indicators. Getting in front of the leading indicators as much as you can and using them to steer your business is much more impactful. Drilling into the numbers is essential to understand why. Is it because our pipeline isn't on plan, or has our conversion rate changed? And then you need to interrogate again. Is it about the economy? Is it about the product? Is it about our messaging in the market? From there, we decide how we steer through that and use data to assist with decision-making.
To what degree do you keep an eye on your competitors versus really trying to focus on what you’re doing as a business?
There’s a healthy balance of to be struck. We believe that so long as we're building a great product that adds a lot of value to customers, that is by far and away the most important thing that we do. Of course, we need to respond to what's happening in the market. So, if there's new legislation that comes out, or if there are new elements that change how people would expect a product to work, we need to look at that and we need to respond. However, I think we also have a very clear conviction about how we want to operate as a business as well.
With the global economic trends and fluctuations as of late, how can you help prepare your teams and the business for things like that?
When these things happen externally it is a signal, but we don't want to overreact when we see it. Instead, you need to say “Okay, does that signal actually translate into meaningful change in terms of how we operate, or does it not?” It is also part of our job to help businesses understand the impact of having a strong solution in place. Even during periods of economic uncertainty, I see opportunities for growth - go back and see what hasn't been working, and fix issues ready for when times improve to bounce back even stronger.
Personio has such a strong mission and purpose, particularly around sustainability and social responsibility. Can you tell us how this manifests itself at the company and what might be on the horizon?
We have very high ambitions from an ESG perspective which has always been the case. Often, companies at an early stage will focus on growth and survival in the market, and only then do they start to think about ESG. For Personio, it has always been part of how we've operated since we were founded in 2015. We have a clear stance on environmental issues, climate change and sustainability, and have a dedicated team that works on that within the business. One element that we put in very early was a strong ESG policy. So much so that we will actually say no to a prospect if it does not meet these standards. Lastly, our Personio Foundation - which supports forward-thinking nonprofit organisations operating in the fields of climate action and education - is formally part of how we operate and our success translates to success for the Foundation. In parallel to the Foundation, we've also implemented Personio.org where we have a very specific offering to not for profits and charities.
“We have a clear stance on environmental issues, climate change and sustainability, and have a dedicated team that works on that within the business.”
Diversity is evidently at the heart of Personio, but what is your perspective on diversity in hiring in the market. Basically, how satisfied, or unsatisfied are you?
I think the market still has a long way to go. This is evident in the fact that people celebrate a company like Personio, that has multiple C-level executives that are female. The fact that people still talk about Personio as a standout to me highlights a wider issue in the corporate world, but it is not an easy problem to solve. I always say the big challenge with having female leaders in executive roles is not just down to the businesses, but the whole ecosystem. Firstly, it’s about how women go in and out of maternity leave and how they're supported in that transition. Then assuming someone comes back into work, there are so many things that are stacked up against female employees. I think in tech, it is probably more forward leaning, as it is in most things around things like diversity, but actually the whole ecosystem needs to move around expectations of what females versus males do. I do think businesses can offer support with a certain amount of flexibility to help with this.
I will always say the most important thing in my life is my family, and I think that will always be the case for me. Outside of my personal life, I continue to be very focused on investing and focusing on early-stage businesses. I am really excited about the European tech ecosystem and how it's grown over the last four or five years and that we need to continue to build that momentum. I'm relatively active as an angel investor, but also in other kinds of networks to help support businesses get up and running. I have the areas that I focus on that are important to me which includes female led and female founded businesses, enterprise tech B2B SaaS, and the Irish ecosystem as well. They're the three areas I specifically find time for.
Beyond your role at Personio and just on more on a personal level, what's one thing people might be surprised to know about you?
If you choose a superpower, what would it be and why?
If I could choose a superpower, it would be time-travel. Seeing the mistakes that I've made, it'd be great to just go back and not make them, and then everything would be perfect!
Are there any books, podcasts or resources that you have found valuable in your professional development?
I am a big reader. I regularly will have three to four books on the go at once and it's a mix of fiction and nonfiction. The one book that I read early on in my career that really helped me think, was "What Got You Here Won't Get You There", so I'm a big fan of Marshall Goldsmith. More recently, he's written a new book on that which is called "How Women Rise" which is a more female focused book of the former one. I’ve recommended "How Women Rise" many times and the feedback has always been that it resonated and was impactful.
Is there anything final thing that you would like to add?
I would urge women to go into roles in sales and to encourage them to push themselves forward as executives. I've been really lucky as I've had a lot of people that have probably believed in me more than I've believed in myself, and they have helped push me forward. As I look back from a more senior level, I can understand why I got support along the way. I see many females earlier in their careers, and like me at that time, there's a level of self-doubt and question "Can I do it?" but actually, I just encourage women to continue to believe and back themselves in commercial roles and what they can do.
