I don’t read
leadership
books as they are
common sense.
This week, we get Up-Close with Vineta Bajaj, Group Chief Financial Officer at Rohlik Group and ex Group Finance Director at Ocado Group. In this interview, Vineta shines a light on the evolution of the role of a CFO over the past decade and provides insights into the tools required to build a no-blame culture.
What are the top 3 attributes of a CFO?
I think it is a mix and it’s mainly two things. To be a finance leader you need to know what to do and how to do it. If you know what to do, then you have fantastic strategy, but if you don't know how to do it, then you are a hands-off leader. If you're a hands-off leader - depending on the type of role in the company that you're in - it will make it harder for you to gain the respect of your team, peers and your wider team. In my opinion, to be influential as a finance figure, you need to have the gravitas and the influence with both your peer group, but also your team. Your peer group is going to focus on whether you know what to do, for example, “this is the strategy of how we get from X to Y”. But, if you go to your team and ask them to build you something without knowing anything, or without understanding how something works or the size of workload you’re asking them to do, then you are kind of letting them sink or swim, and that's not really fair. Historically, around twenty to thirty years ago, it might have been okay to be a very hands-off leader, but now it is more important than ever – particularly with younger generations - to show that you are willing to get into the detail with them and offer that hands on support. And I think those are probably the key things for me, knowing what to do and how to do it. And when I say younger generations, I am referring to a time in the workplace twenty or thirty years ago compared to now. From my personal experience, it really annoyed me when I worked for somebody who would say “can you do it?” when it was evident that they could not guide me on it and had no intention to work on it with me. I remember how that felt and so when I say younger generations, I am talking about the fact that in years gone by, you could sit in an office and not get involved with the team that do the work. Now, most leaders are extremely hands on. People in business and in your teams - especially in finance - expect you to get into the detail more so than before and that helps you build respect and acumen with them.
You have been with Rohlik for six months now – what are you focusing on building and developing and what are your priorities for year one?
It is probably fair to say that having spent ten years at Ocado Group - which is a business that has effectively built and defined this industry – my focus is on bringing a lot of learnings from the industry to a business that is doing things slightly differently. While Ocado is only in the UK for example, Rohlik is in five markets, so it is sort of like overseeing five Ocado’s in a way which means you have five types of customers, five different economic environment, five different types of suppliers, basket sizes, warehouses, labour laws and the list goes on. Therefore, the complexity is significantly greater which is super interesting. The priorities for me as a finance person are to look at the finance team to make sure we’re producing reliable information on a regular basis with good discipline and rigor to enable the business to grow, as that’s really the bread and butter of finance! I am trying to look at what the team do, what the output is and how we can support the business overall. I ask myself things like “is our seat at the table for strategic decisions of finance an additive one? How do we get involved? Can we get involved more?”. So for me, it's about understanding the role that the finance team plays in this business, as it is different in every business. In some cases, finance are more simply at the end of the process, whereas other finance teams sit more at the beginning.
The other thing I would say is that in the current economic environment, the priority is making sure that we manage our growth whilst simultaneously being prudent from a cash management perspective. That involves making sure that we keep enough working capital across the countries as 2023 contains to remain a challenging year for the online grocery industry. If you think about the five types of Rohliks, you've got five different inflationary environments in the five countries. It is mentally stimulating but also really challenging in many ways.
Therefore, my focus is to manage the complexity, using detailed finance information and ensuring that my team is empowered to support the business in ways that the business requires.
What is your approach to creating high-performance culture?
High performance culture stems from one thing, which is being trusted by your manager or your leader. I think a no blame culture is probably the key to all of us, and that's something that I championed at Ocado. I've been at Rohlik for a few months and I'm championing in it now. What does a no blame culture look like? For me it doesn’t matter how big the stuff up is, but you don’t scold. Instead, you ask, “what went wrong? How can we make sure it doesn’t happen again?”. You want to reward the fact that you have been told there was a mistake, and by approaching it this way, it means that people will tell you things and they won’t be scared to do so which ultimately means that you can get ahead of your problems. It has a secondary benefit of driving a low-risk culture as you become able to manage issues earlier since you start learning about potential mishaps sooner.
Someone who I used to look up to many years ago told me to always tell your boss when something goes wrong, because when you sit on it by yourself, you have a sleepless night, you work through it in your dreams and it begins to own you. If you start to do that, it will mean that your team will do the same thing and so if you want them to be happy and not dread coming into work, you need to share what's happening. Therefore, you need to create an environment that allows them to do that.
I use this example a lot. It was year-end and someone who worked in one of my teams came to me at about 11 at night and she was in the middle of reconciling some big numbers and realised she wasn’t able to reconcile it – and we’re right in the middle of our audit! I asked her to take me through what she had done and I asked “have we always know this error was here?”. She told me she was working through it and was hoping it would reconcile – but when it didn’t, she wanted to tell me immediately. However, it was clear to me that we weren’t going to be able to resolve the issue that night, so I said “thanks for letting me know. It’s 11.30pm, we’re not going to solve this now and we’ll talk about it in the morning”. She was quite taken a back and thought we were going to spend the whole night trying to find the issue but neither of our heads were going to work through it effectively at that point in time and I placed the emphasis on thanking her for telling me. Expressing my disappointment wasn’t going to help anybody, and it wasn’t going to help us reconcile the bottom line, so it was important to reward her for coming to me. I think it’s opportunities like that where you can build this no blame culture which ultimately translates to a high-performance culture in my mind. Also, it turned out to be a non-issue as the data set in excel wasn’t right – so it wasn’t a problem at all – she just needed another pair of eyes!
Regarding the current economic climate and market context, how does it impact the way you lead the business and how you plan for the year.
In the current industry landscape, headlines abound with discussions of "supermarkets passing on inflation", "higher supply chain prices", and questions about maintaining competitiveness and sustained growth. However, I believe in disrupting the market and continuously enhancing our customer proposition. It's crucial to manage the business effectively, especially given the challenging economic environment that many companies are facing. Practising conservativeness in growth is essential.
In June 2022, we successfully secured a series D funding round of 220 million euros, which further solidified our unicorn status. Financial management requires careful attention. It's astonishing how quickly money can be depleted if not handled carefully. This necessitates a comprehensive assessment of the balance sheet, examining actual figures and tracking accruals. Evaluating expenses such as office catering, espresso machines, and staff travel may appear trivial to some, but these seemingly minor costs can accumulate significantly.
As the CFO, part of my responsibility is overseeing these financial aspects, which can be a little frustrating at times. Nevertheless, I find satisfaction in ensuring careful spending and closing the purse when necessary! It's a critical component of the job that I embrace wholeheartedly.
“Nevertheless, I find satisfaction in ensuring careful spending and closing the purse when necessary!”
How has the role of the CFO evolved over the years in your perspective?
There are many faces that a CFO can have, and Deloitte have done this this fantastic report called the 4 Faces the CFO which really summarises them.
One is the stewards, which is financial control. The second is the operator, which is “how do I get efficiencies out of where my cash is going?”. Third is the catalyst, which is the catalyst for execution. And then finally there is the strategist. So, if you do it in the right way, the strategist looks at performance, that then looks at being the catalyst for execution which then looks at the stewards for financial control, but then looks at the operator, which is about efficiency.
I think historically, people have seen the CFO or the senior financial professional as needing to have a backwards looking approach with the focus on what has happened. But for me - being a very commercially minded CFO - thinking about the future of the business is actually the better approach and what people expect from their finance professionals these days.
So, the evolution has gone from the CFO simply being the penny pincher operator to all 4 different faces. Further, businesses are demanding that. They're demanding payback from their CFO and for me, that’s something that I always go back to in my mind. I often ask, “which role do I need to play in this situation?”.
“I can read all the leadership books in the world, but I’m not going to start doing ice baths and 5am walks every morning as that doesn’t work for me”
As a newly appointed first-time group CFO, what is the advice you would give to someone who is also on that journey?
The one thing I would say to first time CFOs is that you must autograph the balance sheet. Being an operator and being a controller, although it can be unsexy, is really important. People talk about the fame, glory, the money and all of that but you still must make sure you’re happy with the financial decisions being made. A lot of people forget that because they might think “my financial controller will do that” but you must ensure that you are across it all. Trust is everything. The first thing you must do is make sure you are happy with the material liabilities that are recorded.
What is your career highlight to-date?
I find great satisfaction in creating exceptional teams, although it's challenging to identify a singular instance. As a leader, witnessing the growth and success of individuals who have been promoted under my guidance is truly fulfilling. It serves as a testament to my leadership and brings about a profound sense of accomplishment. Additionally, I actively contribute to the progress of numerous founders and entrepreneurs, helping them expand their businesses in the realms of FoodTech and FinTech. Engaging in various advisory roles also provides me with a deep sense of fulfilment.
“As a leader, witnessing the growth and success of individuals who have been promoted under my guidance is truly fulfilling.”
Do you have any suggestions for books or podcasts that you have read?
I don't have a book or other content to recommend because I don't read leadership books. That’s because I find that they are common sense. It may sound controversial, but you don't need to read a book to tell you how you should be. You need to work out the best version of yourself, and the way you do that is by working out how you would want to be led. That is why my approach is one that emphasises high emotional intelligence. I ask, “how would I feel? What would I want my manager to do?”, and I reverse engineer it. For me, that is broadly it. Of course, I will ask people for context and get differing opinions. I can read all the leadership books in the world, but I’m not going to start doing ice baths and 5am walks every morning as that doesn’t work for me – 5am is an alien time for me! I might be the one working at 2am in the morning and that is fine because everyone is different. When it comes to all the posts and content out there where people say “here are the five habits of successful leaders” I don’t believe in it. You need to find what works for you and you need to be yourself. You need to trial and error. We are all going to make mistakes but that is how you learn and go from there.
